ORBITAL
interviewsofrecordingartists.com
"Freedom."
That is the one word which sums up the work and attitudes of brothers Phil and Paul Hartnoll,
who are the British techno gurus of Orbital.
Ever since their 1990 debut single, "Chime",
the Hartnoll Brothers defied any attempts to impose limitations upon their music or their public image,
which has been as "anti-star", as a recording artist can have. All the while, remaining in the public eye and maintaining awareness of their collective body of work and popularity for their craft, of creating computer generated music.
Over the last decade, Phil Hartnoll says that he has been told so many times, "You cannot do that.', by people inside the music industry, that he and his brother have stopped listening to anyone who attempts to limit them in virtually anyway when it comes time to begin a new recording project.
Today, with their latest album, "The Altogether",
The Hartnolls display their own unique style of techno, electronica, dance, opera and yes even pop,
all be it in a somewhat sophisticated manner,
and set to quirky, yet intelligent rhythmic patterns of computer generated music.
In the following interview, Phil Hartnoll takes some time off from his busy schedule of recording and performing, to talk about Orbital, the wildly popular British dance rave scene, which has embraced the Hartnoll's music. As well as the way Phil views the legal landscape in Britain changing, with laws he believes are an attempt to outlaw not only raves, but individual freedom, which he and his brother hold dearly.
(Q)- Where do Phil and Paul Hartnoll originally call their hometown in the United Kingdom?
Phil Hartnoll- We come from Kent.
(Q)- What is your age please?
Phil Hartnoll- Thirty seven.
(Q)- Over the past five years, in your opinion,
how has the mainstream press and media viewed Orbital as the techno genre has grown in popularity on a global scale?
Phil Hartnoll- We've been quite good with the press in the past. I get the feeling that there's a tendency that we're just tolerated by the press in the UK. They have no hard angles to write about with us. The press in Britain cannot say, 'Ok. Look at these hard, wild guys of rock and roll. They're into taking so many drugs and look at them, aren't they crazy?'
We're not like that. I think that the British press is sort of tabloid crap to be honest. There's no intelligence behind it. It's all very immature and much of it is especially about how badly you can act. I mean look at the brothers in Oasis. When they fight, people love it and all of print media, love it and there's sort of a pressure on those two to be outrageous and then, they're liked. (He laughs) it's so twisted in my mind.
(Q)- Yet, Phil and Paul Hartnoll have had their wilder moments, haven't they?
Phil Hartnoll- Yes.
(Q)- How has your relationship with your brother changed over the past ten years of success the two of you have experienced?
Phil Hartnoll- Our relationship hasn't really grown or lessened, to be really honest. I would say, that we do bicker like mates, as most brothers do. You know, we sort of do bicker like we are eight years old sometimes. (He laughs.) But it (The success of Orbital.) just seems to have sustained our relationship. Obviously certain things within my own separate family, with having kids and things like that, previously I could say, he (his brother) has had to understand where I was coming from. Because of my family commitments, because he didn't have a family of his own. But now he has a child and I can see that is developing a lot of hope for us now that he realizes what I've been going through with my family. So, I could choose to dwell on the past and be quite sort of funny about it, but there's no point in that. So, I think our relationship actually has gotten better, particularly in the past year really. Not that it's been bad at all, but it's just starting to now get even better. We live in Brighton, on the South Coast (Of The United Kingdom.) We basically now living in the same town which makes a lot of things a lot easier.
(Q)- Over the past ten years, as computers have become more prevalent in society, music by recording artist's such as Orbital, has grown in popularity right along with the increased usage of personal computers, in the home as well as the workplace.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes. In the beginning it was horrible. It was a nightmare. People would say, 'Oh yeah. You two turn on your computer and then you write your music and that's it.' The pop music critics hated us. It (Orbital's music.) was looked on as a load of rubbish. Making music via computers was not accepted in the Eighties as it is now. I think people are a bit better accepting of that fact that we use computers to create music. As people become more aware and less technophobes, they now obviously understand that you only get out of a computer what you put into it.
(Q)- There has been a definite change in that, there's a greater acceptance of techno music as well as
music crafted with computers.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes there has been.
(Q)- And that techno music is not only for the
raves and the dance floors.
Phil Hartnoll- Acceptance of our music and making music by using computers today is far better then when the craft was in it's earliest stages. Even the entire genre of techno, it wasn't considered legitimate music
until recently. I mean, look at the early Kraftwerk (German techno recording artists popular in the Seventies.) until only a few years ago. And Kraftwerk has it's roots in the earliest stages of techno music. Their music wasn't considered as legitimate dance music, just because it was primarily crafted on computers. It took a long, long time for people to actually accept it (techno) as a musical genre there, with electronic music and that the music wasn't just made for the dance floor. There is a lot more to it then that. You know? It can be or it can be for the dance floor. It depends on the trick you know?
(Q)- There previously was a fear of computer music.
Phil Hartnoll- Maybe.
(Q)- Why do you think people today are less afraid of computers and computer generated music?
Phil Hartnoll- Just because the music industry uses computers a lot more now a days. And also the younger generation who has come up and grown of age, they were born with sort of, computers always being around. The changes that have occurred over time in the Western world as well as the Far East, well there are computers everywhere today. You know. You come home from work on the train and there are people using their laptop computers. People now know that a spreadsheet done on a computer doesn't really make itself now does it? The same holds forth for music really. Also there was a bit of defensiveness as well with this type of music and the genre of techno music, from the more traditional sides of the music industry. The tools that we use to make the music of Orbital, well the (computer programming) tools we use, we had to learn how to use and in some instances, it took years how to actually to learn how to use the tools. While it's good fun learning it, it still is the same as the way it is to learning to play the guitar, the drums or whatever musical instrument. Just because it was a new idea ten years ago, the general public I think was a bit afraid at first of the change and the new things. They're quite cautious I would say.
(Q)- What about the way that rave culture, which Orbital's music has been and remains a major part
of? Has there not been quite a bit of fear by the
the legal authority in general, surrounding the way the rave culture is portrayed as being in the United Kingdom as well as the USA?
Phil Hartnoll- What do you specifically mean?
(Q)- One, Orbital doesn't just appeal to the soccer hooligans or the retro hippie elements in the United Kingdom. There is a cross section of ages and people who have different lifestyles whom enjoy and support Orbital and the music the Hartnoll brothers create and release and pay to attend their performances.
And, the climate has changed dramatically in the USA as well as the UK whenever the topic of rave culture and the music that is often played at a rave event.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes is has certainly. Earlier this year, this is what I've heard is going on in the USA. You've got policeman going up to youngsters in the streets just because they've got glow sticks and the policeman are saying, 'You're holding a glow stick,
therefore that means you're going to a rave and thus, you've got illegal drugs on you.' I mean, I grew up through the punk scene of the Seventies which was a very, very subversive, anti-authority scene and time,
in a very open way, in your face way. That (Punk rock in the Seventies.) was very subversive in a very open way. Now with the rave scene, obviously with the introduction of the drug ecstasy, is now supposedly going hand in hand sort of thing. Things are quite different. With the subculture of punk, it was, 'Ok. Nobody is listening to us, we're upset about this. You don't take issue, you just tolerate us and you don't take us seriously.' That's how the authorities in
my opinion, viewed the whole punk scene.
(Q)- And in comparison to the rave scene which is currently en vogue in the United Kingdom?
Phil Hartnoll- The authorities have ended up twisted about with the rave culture. I mean, (rave culture) it's about young people going off into a field, middle of nowhere really, having a laugh and enjoying themselves. Freedom. Expressing themselves freely, it broke down a lot of the barriers between the sexes really. It did break down a lot of the barriers between the male and female sexes. Now, it's not quite as 'loved up' as the Sixties hippie culture. But now with the rave culture growing, I think it is a good
development. Because prior to the rave culture becoming en vogue, I think the whole dance culture was in Britain getting quite aggressive.
(Q)- With the techno group Prodigy and the whole aggressive and at times violent soccer hooligans and
the 'angry punters', taking their pent up aggression out on others?
Phil Hartnoll- Right really. (He laughs.) I remember back in the early Nineties when we first started performing in the clubs, you couldn't go and even look at a girl without her boyfriend trying to attack you because he thought you were trying to hit on her.
(Q)- You're saying the rave culture has clamed everybody down a bit as time went on?
Phil Hartnoll- You went go off into a field had a great time, nobody got into a fight because there wasn't any alcohol or harsh drugs in that sort of aggressive way. The (British) government did not know how to handle it. They went off and introduced
this thing called, "The Criminal Justice Bill". In this Law, it still stands now, it's a symbol of Justice and I don't think so. It's written in law something about repetitive beat music and the law is trying to describe and outlaw people going into fields and listening to repetitive beat music. Which is referring to rave culture. Mind you now, most music does have a repetitive beat to it. So does classical music, even though within classical music the tempo might fluctuate within a song. So now a policeman can come up to me, while I'm walking down the street with a friend and say to me, "OK you two can go home because I suspect that you are going to this rave that I suspect is happening down this road. When, none of this is happening at all. But within the law now, they're (British policeman.) allowed to do this.
The thing is, the government, as with any other subculture that has come before the rave subculture, the government has never felt so threatened by the rave culture, in a subversive way, to ever write something into a Bill Of Law. Until now. Which really refers to a bit towards Fascism and refers towards the first step towards your civil liberties being taken away from you.
(Q)- So the rave culture represents on a greater level
freedom of expression and that scares quite a few people in the government?
Phil Hartnoll- There's something about this culture.
If it's about illegal drugs, then you go into the city of London and see how much cocaine there is and how prevalent the use of cocaine is.
(Q)- Are you saying that the issue the British government has with the rave culture is in some ways to you, more of a fear of the individual citizen's freedom, then protecting the young people of Britain from drug use and dangerous behavior?
Phil Hartnoll- Yes. I think it's really unfair because they pin it on, 'Oh it's for your children's protection. We want to prevent them from taking drugs.' And that's what they pin it on and it's really unfair to try and outlaw a type of music such as techno or dance music. It's outrageous!
(Q)- To change the subject, your new album, "The Altogether", is certainly a departure from your previous efforts. Orbital is known for long, ten minute songs, which are sonically condensed into tracks on a disc. With the new tracks on "The Altogether", the average track is four minutes in length. Why the move to make shorter musical expressions, when your known for stretching out the time it takes to complete the musical mix?
Phil Hartnoll- That album to us was a bit of fun,
light hearted and a good, fun time to record. Now we're going out there and going to do a (concert) tour and the whole message we're trying to take out with us during our performances is, 'OK right. Let's forget everyone else and what's going on. Let's just express ourselves and have a bit of fun.' The album was done in a unifying way, which is what we're all about.
(Q)- Unifying with whom?
Phil Hartnoll- To the listener, to the audience.
So they can learn what we're really about. Hopefully there will now be a sense of community. Hopefully if
it all works. (He laughs.)
(Q)- Does Phil Hartnoll have his own crystal ball? Can he foresee where things are heading for the rave culture and Orbital?
Phil Hartnoll- I don't know, I really don't know the answer. I wish I did have a crystal ball right now. (He laughs.) I don't know, obviously we just go off and do our own thing and we don't take any notice as to what the rest of the pop and rock world in Britain
is doing. We get our influences by any music that's around, if it's old music or new music. And we've never stuck in one style and we've always enjoyed what we're doing and hope that other people like it really.
And so far people have enjoyed what we're doing which is great. I couldn't wish for a better timing really. I really couldn't. And we tend to never think about what we're going to do either. It's sort of let it more sort of just come to us.
(Q)- Why does Orbital's music keep being labeled by music critics as, "intelligent" yet, you're constantly stating in interviews that you dropped out of school and that you cannot figure out why they are saying that? Are you in denial?
Phil Hartnoll- (Laughs.) The 'intelligent techno' thing can be sort of misleading. It was an idea which came up a long time ago. It was more challenging and somber in a sense to try and get the idea out of people's minds that techno music was solely for the dance floor. There's much more to this then other people realize. While some things are very suited to the dance floor and very specifically made for that reason, there are other tangents that we go off into
with our music. Also, the song structure sand things that we do within our music, is used in comparison to classical music which is viewed as more high brow and things like that. So six years ago, artificial intelligence as a word that was bandied around for a bit by the press for a particular genre of music.
And we said, 'Look, this music isn't just for the
dance floor, it could be suited for whenever you're
in your armchair listening to music to relax with and enjoy. We're more about possibilities, it's not necessarily a dancing tune.
End.
interviewsofrecordingartists.com
"Freedom."
That is the one word which sums up the work and attitudes of brothers Phil and Paul Hartnoll, who are the British techno gurus of Orbital. Ever since their 1990 debut single, "Chime", the Hartnoll Brothers defied any attempts to impose limitations upon their music or their public image, which has been as "anti-star", as a recording artist can have. All the while, remaining in the public eye and maintaining awareness of their collective body of work and popularity for their craft, of creating computer generated music. Over the last decade, Phil Hartnoll says that he has been told so many times, "You cannot do that.', by people inside the music industry, that he and his brother have stopped listening to anyone who attempts to limit them in virtually anyway when it comes time to begin a new recording project. Today, with their latest album, "The Altogether", The Hartnolls display their own unique style of techno, electronica, dance, opera and yes even pop, all be it in a somewhat sophisticated manner, and set to quirky, yet intelligent rhythmic patterns of computer generated music. In the following interview, Phil Hartnoll takes some time off from his busy schedule of recording and performing, to talk about Orbital, the wildly popular British dance rave scene, which has embraced the Hartnoll's music. As well as the way Phil views the legal landscape in Britain changing, with laws he believes are an attempt to outlaw not only raves, but individual freedom, which he and his brother hold dearly.
(Q)- Where do Phil and Paul Hartnoll originally call their hometown in the United Kingdom?
Phil Hartnoll- We come from Kent.
(Q)- What is your age please?
Phil Hartnoll- Thirty seven.
(Q)- Over the past five years, in your opinion, how has the mainstream press and media viewed Orbital as the techno genre has grown in popularity on a global scale?
Phil Hartnoll- We've been quite good with the press in the past. I get the feeling that there's a tendency that we're just tolerated by the press in the UK. They have no hard angles to write about with us. The press in Britain cannot say, 'Ok. Look at these hard, wild guys of rock and roll. They're into taking so many drugs and look at them, aren't they crazy?' We're not like that. I think that the British press is sort of tabloid crap to be honest. There's no intelligence behind it. It's all very immature and much of it is especially about how badly you can act. I mean look at the brothers in Oasis. When they fight, people love it and all of print media, love it and there's sort of a pressure on those two to be outrageous and then, they're liked. (He laughs) it's so twisted in my mind.
(Q)- Yet, Phil and Paul Hartnoll have had their wilder moments, haven't they?
Phil Hartnoll- Yes.
(Q)- How has your relationship with your brother changed over the past ten years of success the two of you have experienced?
Phil Hartnoll- Our relationship hasn't really grown or lessened, to be really honest. I would say, that we do bicker like mates, as most brothers do. You know, we sort of do bicker like we are eight years old sometimes. (He laughs.) But it (The success of Orbital.) just seems to have sustained our relationship. Obviously certain things within my own separate family, with having kids and things like that, previously I could say, he (his brother) has had to understand where I was coming from. Because of my family commitments, because he didn't have a family of his own. But now he has a child and I can see that is developing a lot of hope for us now that he realizes what I've been going through with my family. So, I could choose to dwell on the past and be quite sort of funny about it, but there's no point in that. So, I think our relationship actually has gotten better, particularly in the past year really. Not that it's been bad at all, but it's just starting to now get even better. We live in Brighton, on the South Coast (Of The United Kingdom.) We basically now living in the same town which makes a lot of things a lot easier.
(Q)- Over the past ten years, as computers have become more prevalent in society, music by recording artist's such as Orbital, has grown in popularity right along with the increased usage of personal computers, in the home as well as the workplace.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes. In the beginning it was horrible. It was a nightmare. People would say, 'Oh yeah. You two turn on your computer and then you write your music and that's it.' The pop music critics hated us. It (Orbital's music.) was looked on as a load of rubbish. Making music via computers was not accepted in the Eighties as it is now. I think people are a bit better accepting of that fact that we use computers to create music. As people become more aware and less technophobes, they now obviously understand that you only get out of a computer what you put into it.
(Q)- There has been a definite change in that, there's a greater acceptance of techno music as well as music crafted with computers.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes there has been.
(Q)- And that techno music is not only for the raves and the dance floors.
Phil Hartnoll- Acceptance of our music and making music by using computers today is far better then when the craft was in it's earliest stages. Even the entire genre of techno, it wasn't considered legitimate music until recently. I mean, look at the early Kraftwerk (German techno recording artists popular in the Seventies.) until only a few years ago. And Kraftwerk has it's roots in the earliest stages of techno music. Their music wasn't considered as legitimate dance music, just because it was primarily crafted on computers. It took a long, long time for people to actually accept it (techno) as a musical genre there, with electronic music and that the music wasn't just made for the dance floor. There is a lot more to it then that. You know? It can be or it can be for the dance floor. It depends on the trick you know?
(Q)- There previously was a fear of computer music.
Phil Hartnoll- Maybe.
(Q)- Why do you think people today are less afraid of computers and computer generated music?
Phil Hartnoll- Just because the music industry uses computers a lot more now a days. And also the younger generation who has come up and grown of age, they were born with sort of, computers always being around. The changes that have occurred over time in the Western world as well as the Far East, well there are computers everywhere today. You know. You come home from work on the train and there are people using their laptop computers. People now know that a spreadsheet done on a computer doesn't really make itself now does it? The same holds forth for music really. Also there was a bit of defensiveness as well with this type of music and the genre of techno music, from the more traditional sides of the music industry. The tools that we use to make the music of Orbital, well the (computer programming) tools we use, we had to learn how to use and in some instances, it took years how to actually to learn how to use the tools. While it's good fun learning it, it still is the same as the way it is to learning to play the guitar, the drums or whatever musical instrument. Just because it was a new idea ten years ago, the general public I think was a bit afraid at first of the change and the new things. They're quite cautious I would say.
(Q)- What about the way that rave culture, which Orbital's music has been and remains a major part of? Has there not been quite a bit of fear by the the legal authority in general, surrounding the way the rave culture is portrayed as being in the United Kingdom as well as the USA?
Phil Hartnoll- What do you specifically mean?
(Q)- One, Orbital doesn't just appeal to the soccer hooligans or the retro hippie elements in the United Kingdom. There is a cross section of ages and people who have different lifestyles whom enjoy and support Orbital and the music the Hartnoll brothers create and release and pay to attend their performances. And, the climate has changed dramatically in the USA as well as the UK whenever the topic of rave culture and the music that is often played at a rave event.
Phil Hartnoll- Yes is has certainly. Earlier this year, this is what I've heard is going on in the USA. You've got policeman going up to youngsters in the streets just because they've got glow sticks and the policeman are saying, 'You're holding a glow stick, therefore that means you're going to a rave and thus, you've got illegal drugs on you.' I mean, I grew up through the punk scene of the Seventies which was a very, very subversive, anti-authority scene and time, in a very open way, in your face way. That (Punk rock in the Seventies.) was very subversive in a very open way. Now with the rave scene, obviously with the introduction of the drug ecstasy, is now supposedly going hand in hand sort of thing. Things are quite different. With the subculture of punk, it was, 'Ok. Nobody is listening to us, we're upset about this. You don't take issue, you just tolerate us and you don't take us seriously.' That's how the authorities in my opinion, viewed the whole punk scene.
(Q)- And in comparison to the rave scene which is currently en vogue in the United Kingdom?
Phil Hartnoll- The authorities have ended up twisted about with the rave culture. I mean, (rave culture) it's about young people going off into a field, middle of nowhere really, having a laugh and enjoying themselves. Freedom. Expressing themselves freely, it broke down a lot of the barriers between the sexes really. It did break down a lot of the barriers between the male and female sexes. Now, it's not quite as 'loved up' as the Sixties hippie culture. But now with the rave culture growing, I think it is a good development. Because prior to the rave culture becoming en vogue, I think the whole dance culture was in Britain getting quite aggressive.
(Q)- With the techno group Prodigy and the whole aggressive and at times violent soccer hooligans and the 'angry punters', taking their pent up aggression out on others?
Phil Hartnoll- Right really. (He laughs.) I remember back in the early Nineties when we first started performing in the clubs, you couldn't go and even look at a girl without her boyfriend trying to attack you because he thought you were trying to hit on her.
(Q)- You're saying the rave culture has clamed everybody down a bit as time went on?
Phil Hartnoll- You went go off into a field had a great time, nobody got into a fight because there wasn't any alcohol or harsh drugs in that sort of aggressive way. The (British) government did not know how to handle it. They went off and introduced this thing called, "The Criminal Justice Bill". In this Law, it still stands now, it's a symbol of Justice and I don't think so. It's written in law something about repetitive beat music and the law is trying to describe and outlaw people going into fields and listening to repetitive beat music. Which is referring to rave culture. Mind you now, most music does have a repetitive beat to it. So does classical music, even though within classical music the tempo might fluctuate within a song. So now a policeman can come up to me, while I'm walking down the street with a friend and say to me, "OK you two can go home because I suspect that you are going to this rave that I suspect is happening down this road. When, none of this is happening at all. But within the law now, they're (British policeman.) allowed to do this. The thing is, the government, as with any other subculture that has come before the rave subculture, the government has never felt so threatened by the rave culture, in a subversive way, to ever write something into a Bill Of Law. Until now. Which really refers to a bit towards Fascism and refers towards the first step towards your civil liberties being taken away from you.
(Q)- So the rave culture represents on a greater level freedom of expression and that scares quite a few people in the government?
Phil Hartnoll- There's something about this culture. If it's about illegal drugs, then you go into the city of London and see how much cocaine there is and how prevalent the use of cocaine is.
(Q)- Are you saying that the issue the British government has with the rave culture is in some ways to you, more of a fear of the individual citizen's freedom, then protecting the young people of Britain from drug use and dangerous behavior?
Phil Hartnoll- Yes. I think it's really unfair because they pin it on, 'Oh it's for your children's protection. We want to prevent them from taking drugs.' And that's what they pin it on and it's really unfair to try and outlaw a type of music such as techno or dance music. It's outrageous!
(Q)- To change the subject, your new album, "The Altogether", is certainly a departure from your previous efforts. Orbital is known for long, ten minute songs, which are sonically condensed into tracks on a disc. With the new tracks on "The Altogether", the average track is four minutes in length. Why the move to make shorter musical expressions, when your known for stretching out the time it takes to complete the musical mix?
Phil Hartnoll- That album to us was a bit of fun, light hearted and a good, fun time to record. Now we're going out there and going to do a (concert) tour and the whole message we're trying to take out with us during our performances is, 'OK right. Let's forget everyone else and what's going on. Let's just express ourselves and have a bit of fun.' The album was done in a unifying way, which is what we're all about.
(Q)- Unifying with whom?
Phil Hartnoll- To the listener, to the audience. So they can learn what we're really about. Hopefully there will now be a sense of community. Hopefully if it all works. (He laughs.)
(Q)- Does Phil Hartnoll have his own crystal ball? Can he foresee where things are heading for the rave culture and Orbital?
Phil Hartnoll- I don't know, I really don't know the answer. I wish I did have a crystal ball right now. (He laughs.) I don't know, obviously we just go off and do our own thing and we don't take any notice as to what the rest of the pop and rock world in Britain is doing. We get our influences by any music that's around, if it's old music or new music. And we've never stuck in one style and we've always enjoyed what we're doing and hope that other people like it really. And so far people have enjoyed what we're doing which is great. I couldn't wish for a better timing really. I really couldn't. And we tend to never think about what we're going to do either. It's sort of let it more sort of just come to us.
(Q)- Why does Orbital's music keep being labeled by music critics as, "intelligent" yet, you're constantly stating in interviews that you dropped out of school and that you cannot figure out why they are saying that? Are you in denial?
Phil Hartnoll- (Laughs.) The 'intelligent techno' thing can be sort of misleading. It was an idea which came up a long time ago. It was more challenging and somber in a sense to try and get the idea out of people's minds that techno music was solely for the dance floor. There's much more to this then other people realize. While some things are very suited to the dance floor and very specifically made for that reason, there are other tangents that we go off into with our music. Also, the song structure sand things that we do within our music, is used in comparison to classical music which is viewed as more high brow and things like that. So six years ago, artificial intelligence as a word that was bandied around for a bit by the press for a particular genre of music. And we said, 'Look, this music isn't just for the dance floor, it could be suited for whenever you're in your armchair listening to music to relax with and enjoy. We're more about possibilities, it's not necessarily a dancing tune.
End.
