Now that Marilyn Manson has become an international rock star,
the music industry as well as the international media, has finally begun taking note of what Manson has to say. When the topic of who or what, inspired his transformation into the exotic-looking creature the androgynous Manson portrays with his carefully crafted public image, one name continues to surface.
Blackie Lawless of the metal rock act W.A.S.P..
Blackie Lawless has been at the center of controversy for nearly twenty years and he's no stranger to taking chances. Both with his onstage theatrics, his lifestyle and music.
Yet, Lawless has paid a high price for his fame and outrageous artistic statements.
"This is a very high risk business," says Lawless. "You gamble with your life quite a bit. This may sound odd, but I can actually live with that part of the scene. I think the hardest part any true artist deals with is his own demons."
The dramatic way in which his music has affected so many people,
has always been a personal goal for Lawless.
"A conclusion I came to ten years ago is that an artist must stir the minds of men and women. Unless you are saying something lyrically or musically then you are not an artist. You're just a factory that makes records.
Stark realism is the only thing at all. I believe in and hold strong convictions about my work."
As one of the most outspoken individuals in all of metal, Blackie Lawless has attacked within his song lyrics, many aspects of today's modern western culture.
In the following interview Blackie Lawless talks about why he holds such strong convictions and how those deeply held personal convictions influence his songwriting and the music of W.A.S.P.
(Q)- Why do you feel only a handful of "metal' recording artist have been wiling to take chances?
Blackie Lawless- It is so tempting for these kids to take the safe road with their music. Not only is taking the safe road not very challenging, it's not very rewarding. When we talk about risk, I gambled with my life by just getting into this business in the first place.
(Q)- What is your response to those critics of who have stated you are only in this for the money?
Blackie Lawless- This has had nothing to do with money. I was doing good without it. I enjoy doing the confrontational theatre stuff and no one can do it as good as we do. It's not about money because we've not had a problem with it, thanks to our dedicated audience.
(Q)- The most recent W.A.S.P. album, "Unholy Terror" is another example of that of your unique style of songwriting. There has always been that dark element. That is the main aspect of your music which has really never changed. Many of the classic W.A.S.P. songs, have a real doom and gloom message in the song lyrics. Why?
Blackie Lawless- Musically I can see that what I've been doing as far as my songwriting goes, could be right on the music from my first album. Now I don't consciously sit down every time I write song lyrics and try to predetermine which direction the lyrics will go in. I'm just going by what I feel and I'm just trying to consciously rediscover who I am. And, when I say consciously, it's more from my subconscious really because I'm just trying to rediscover who I am every time I make an album. If somebody ask me half way through, my writing and recording an album, "So what's the next record going to be like?". I'll tell them, "I don't know." They often think I'm teasing them because I say," I don't know!", but I usually don't know until I'm two thirds of the way done before the record starts revealing itself to me. And, I start putting groups of my thoughts together. Then I say to myself, "OK. That's what I'm really thinking right now.
(Q)- Songwriting is a cathartic experience for you then?
Blackie Lawless- Very much. Because who you are right now is not who you are going to be five years from now and who you were five years earlier is not who you are today. So it is quite of interesting for me to write songs because it's kind of like, "This Is Your Life."
(Q)- Marilyn Manson has stated he is a big fan of yours. Marilyn credits you as a major influence on his stage costumes and ultra-decadent, attitude. Metal music is staging a major comeback global marketplace. Will W.A.S.P. have a place in the, "New World Order", of metal?
Blackie Lawless- While that observation may be right, the one thing that I'm really not conscious of is that I cannot really think about that too much. Because if you do that, that is a really dangerous game to start playing. Because you start trying to follow instead of lead. It goes back to the idea of being yourself and not following whatever the current fad or trend is at a given moment. I really think that is important because if I one day find myself "en vogue", then that's great, that's a bonus. But the bottom line is for me, I have to be honest as a songwriter. Because if I'm not honest, then I don't get enthusiastic about it. It's going to turn out to be junk. I have to hear and really feel that bolt of lightning go through me whenever I hear a song. I hear bands talk about how, whenever their writing records, they'll write forty of fifty songs. I'm not into that. I'm interested in editing the list down to ten, maybe eleven songs, long before we get into the (recording) studio and then we work on those songs until the songs are the best that they can be. I'm not interested in anything that does not move me. And some of the songs do come across as pure artistic indulgence and I'm aware of that.
(Q)- Why?
Blackie Lawless- I am part Native American Indian, so I do embrace their teachings and philosophies quite a bit. So one of the things I've been learning to do is to clear the concious mind and just let the subconscious come out. And that's what I have done at times with my songwriting. I just hit the record button and whatever comes out, is what I play. And whenever I have done that I've really been impressed with the results. In a way, I'm just letting people walk around on the inside of my head to find out what's going on. Be that good or bad.
(Q)- Is that a key to W.A.S.P.'s longevity as an international metal act?
Blackie Lawless- I think that element plays a role. Because if you don't do that then you're never going to take them along for that lifelong ride. And I think that is a secret of having a long career. Are you willing to let people who are your fans, get on the inside of you so that they know who you are and that they become intimate with you? Because if they are not intimate, you're never going to take them on that life long trip. If you look at guys like Neil Young or Eric Clapton, artists like that, they have been willing to let people come inside of them. That's the only way people are going to feel intimate with you. So that is really important. But I think a lot of that also goes back to that idea of not trying to be trendy and just follow you own heart.
(Q)-How has W.A.S.P. changed as a live act? A lot of what you did in the eighties seems tame in comparison to a Marilyn Manson show.
Blackie Lawless- Actually W.A.S.P. live has evolved. When something matures or ages like fine wine, like W.A.S.P. live has, the expectations are pretty high to put on a strong show. W.A.S.P.'s live play list has some songs that are now over seventeen years old and those songs have a place for memories in people's heads.
From the first album to the most recent. So you have long time held preconception of what W.A.S.P. is all about on the part of the fans. And on my part, I've got to deliver a show that proves the songs have a long lasting merit to the material.
(Q)- Metal has loyal fans who are really into the mix of the music and know the details of all of the songs.
Blackie Lawless- Yes.
(Q)- Yet, W.A.S.P. started out in the group's beginning, being known for theatrics and being the most outrageous rock group in the world in the 1980's. So outrageous that the media in the U.S.A. really attacked you and what you were doing on-stage. You were known for being a sensationalist.
Blackie Lawless- Yes.
(Q)- Not many outrageous metal groups who have an international reputation as a visual live group, later become known for their songs. Why is W.A.S.P. so different?
Blackie Lawless- The way I perceive it, if you ask one thousand people (Who are W.A.S.P. fans.) you might get one thousand people different replies. To me, the music comes first, then whatever happens, just happens. The way W.A.S.P. has changed over seventeen years is that we used to do stuff in the beginning just for fun. Now with W.A.S.P. I've come to a point where I ask myself, "Is what I'm going to do on-stage being done just for the point of sensationalism?" While it always wasn't done just to make headlines, I'm sure some of the things we have done, probably were perceived that way by the public. Now, I have reached the point where, if it is true that art has to be viewed on multiple levels and you cannot view what I'm doing on multiple levels, then I'm not really interested in doing it. So, if I'm doing something that is trying to make a social statement on-stage and some people only see the superficial level of what I'm doing, well you never know if five years later, those same people will say, "Wow! That's what he was trying to do!" Hopefully if somebody, "Get's it.", then they do understand what you're trying to do.
(Q)- Have you had the problems with the media and he legal authorities that you've had in the past?
Blackie Lawless- Not really. I go by the seat of my pants a lot of time because I'm real off the cuff. Whatever motivates me, that's where I'm going. Because that's what I'm about.
(Q)- You have never really been predictable with whatever music you were about to record for your next album. Why?
Blackie Lawless- It all goes back to our early days. When I looked at the (song)writings of our first record, that record was written in a time span of maybe only a year. So that record really reflects who I was at that time. I like to give people an accurate account of who I am whenever I am working on the songs for a new record. I've done that with every record I've written in the past seventeen years. So again, going back to the idea that you're not the same person you were five years ago and that two years ago, you're going to be different and you're going to think differently. We're all constantly changing and evolving. I mean the "Headless Children" album
was an album that our record company didn't want us to record at that time we recorded it. The record company was saying to me that the album didn't sound like W.A.S.P. and that it didn't sound like what was happening in the (music) marketplace. But actually the message was, "If this doesn't work, then you're out on your ear." Fortunately that ended up for us being the biggest selling record of our career.
(Q)- What did that experience teach you?
Blackie Lawless- It was a pretty good example of doing things rather impulsively.
(Q)- Did you study one group which you learned how to conduct your own personal music and business?
Blackie Lawless- Yes. The Beatles. One of the things I always remembered about studying the Beatles historically is that when they were having a problem getting anybody to pay attention to them in the beginning,
the Beatles were turned down by every record company. EMI had already turned them down and the only reason they were even being considered by
EMI was by the grace of (Sir) George Martin. And when they (The Beatles record company.) were trying to get them in the early days of their recording career, to do "cover tunes" and other songs by other songwriters, the Beatles just stood up and said to their record company, "Well then maybe we should not have a recording contract at all." I mean that was in the earliest days of their careers, they were ready to walk. Now here was a group of guys who were struggling for survival but yet willing to walk away from it (success) if they couldn't have success on their (own) terms. I've always admired that and I've thought, "Yeah that's the way it should be." I've done that a number of times in my career and just put it all on the table and then let just let dice roll. It's like I put it all on the line, I've risked it all.
(Q)- Do your fans recognize that?
Blackie Lawless- I think that they probably do recognize that. Because, I've taken some real chances before but, that's what I wanted to do. In realize that if you pull up to the drive in window at McDonalds and you order the Big Mac sandwich you know what it is going to taste like no matter what city you're in the world. But I've always preferred to be a little more eclectic then that. Now has that hurt me in terms of record sales? "Absolutely." But hey, that's what I wanted to do and you sell eleven million records in your career like I have, then that's not a bad run. I would rather sell eleven million records over the course of seventeen years then eleven million over the course of one year and then nobody remembers me after that.
A lot of these new bands are running the risk of having a career like that.
(Q)- How does Blackie Lawless feel now about his career?
Blackie Lawless- If I'm supposed to do this and if this is what I'm going to do then hey, you know what? I've had a pretty good run and it's like maybe time for me to start thinking about doing something else. I've been very fortunate. It was only about five years ago that I really realized how fortunate I've been.
(Q)- In what way?
Blackie Lawless- One of the things that you realize when you sign onto a record organization is that your life no longer belongs to you.
(Q)- Are you happy to be doing what you so desire, which is
playing music and performing?
Blackie Lawless- Yes.
(Q)- it has been on your own terms for the most part hasn't it?
Blackie Lawless- Yes it has and I'm fortunate in those regards. You want to talk about someone who is naive? I have been. It was only until about five or six years ago that I realized how lucky and fortunate I've been.
I'm friends with Sammy Hagar, I've known him for a while. One day I ran into him and we were talking about some stuff and while I've known him for a while, somehow when we got on the subject of the record companies and the A&R guys and he said, "Hey does you record company A&R guys call you a lot and pester you a lot whenever you're not working?" I said, "No. Why?" Sammy looked at me kind of strange and said, "My record company A&R guys are in the (recording) studio or my office looking at my ass nearly the whole time while I'm making a record."
(Q)-Why have you been different?
Blackie Lawless- You have got to remember that from the very first day I signed with Capitol Records, I had the first right of refusal over all artwork and music which went out from W.A.S.P. . (Note: W.A.S.P. is no longer with Capitol Records in the U.S.A. .) Which is something that is extremely rare in the music business. Now is it a strength? Oh man, a huge one! I mean Ace Frehley (KISS) is one of my very best buddies and I've watched KISS from the very beginning. And one thing Ace was always preaching to me was make sure your first (recording) contract is the strongest thing that you can possibly get because it is more then likely going to dictate everything that is going to happen with your career. And as far as my career goes, no truer words have ever been spoken. So anyway when Sammy asked me, "Is anybody from your record company bothering you whenever you're in the (recording) studio making your album?" And he then tells me that they're in there everyday bothering him. I told Sammy only six times in my career has ever anybody from my record company ever came into the (recording) studio and four of those times were when I invited them to come in because I wanted them to hear the new music I was so excited about. The only two times they came in unannounced they got the feeling pretty quickly that they weren't welcome and I wasn't thrilled about them being there. So, after that conversation with Sammy I started asking other guys who were my friends and had recording contracts and low and behold everybody was going through the same thing that Sammy had one through. I lived a very sheltered existence from day one of my recording career. I'm like the kid who was brought up on the deserted island. I don't know what reality is.
End.
